0:00
This is the Successful Archi Student’s podcast episode 11.

Hey guys, welcome to Episode 11. Today, this is a really special episode and I’m really fired up right now as I just got off a co of a video co with Andrew McDonald, who’s one of the most generous and genuine guys. I know despite just meeting him, and he’s um, he’s an amazing speaker as well and he definitely knows what he’s talking about. In today’s episode, I talked with him about his unconventional way of getting into architecture and how he’s using UX design and UI design to act as a bridge to get him to his end goal of being an architect, although he will also discuss how along the way he’s straight away from that end goal of being an architect and how he’s just picking it up as he goes, I guess, and he taught me some extremely valuable lessons that I’m sure will be valuable for you as well. He kinda reminds me of a Jordan Peterson if you know who I’m talking about. Maybe it’s just the fact that he’s Canadian, but Nevertheless, he’s got some really great tips. He’s got some really great advice for me and you guys. So without further ado, let’s dive into it.

1:11
So beside recording How you going, man?

1:17
No problem did. So you’re the first student to be on the on the podcast. How do you feel about that?

1:23
I just deeply honored

1:27
in the emails you were sending earlier to me, you’ve been saying that you’ve been approaching architecture from kind of a more unconventional edge and different angle than what most people would traditionally do. Um, can you tell me a bit more about like, what you mean by that and where you’re at? Regarding architecture?

1:44
Yeah, absolutely. So I mean, when if when one considers architecture, they see it as like a master’s degrees. It’s kind of a third tier level of education. And most of them say, Okay, I’m going to go to school. I’m going to get a bachelor’s and I’m going to go get my masters in architecture. I have decided to pretty much Kate, the whole academic process of getting there, and instead, I am looking to work as a designer creatively in a different fields, build up my portfolio of work as a designer and as a creative, and then use that to apply to the master’s program without my bachelor’s. It’s a little ambitious. But I already have reached out to two different universities with the portfolio I have already and both of them said, you’re more than welcome to submit and will grade you accordingly with your work experience instead of your bachelor’s.

2:28
Wow. That’s really cool.

2:31
Yeah, yeah, go ahead. Good.

2:33
So you kind of taken more of like an apprenticeship kind of approach rather than going through the university, I guess.

2:39
Yeah, I guess that’s actually not a better way. To put it. I only I guess the only lack of parallel to that is I don’t have like a particular architect. That’s like mentoring me through the process. And I’m working in a field that’s not architecture. I am specifically working in UX design, which is in many ways as a design process, incredibly parallel to architecture. But we do miss many of the small things that you guys happened we do much more usually in a technological mindset.

3:04
Yeah, that’s true. That’s so cool. So are you applying at universities and then like Do you still want to do that traditional five year degree course or like how does that kind of work

3:16
so here in Canada we have our four years bachelor’s programs and then we have our master programs which can vary between two to three years UBC the school nearest me they have a specific bachelor’s program that if you do they shave off a year and a half on your masters so it’s only like five years six years total which is pretty quick for masters here in Canada. So I’m just looking to basically abdicate the entire four year bachelor and instead aim for two three year masters depending on the program and how long I take to do it.

3:43
That’s cool

3:44
Yeah, that’s awesome. Yeah, I’ll still need I still need to get my masters get still required to register as an architect. Definitely. But that’s that’s the only piece of basically like traditional academic or academia you can just say that I’m actually aiming for

3:58
that’s really cool because The way most students would say is that

4:03
there really is only one way to get through to architecture or if you’re doing UX design or something like that, then it’s, yeah, you have to do your bachelor’s you have to do your masters and then get registered. But yeah, there definitely are ways to get around that. And that’s really cool that you’re doing something different than everyone else.

4:19
It definitely see like the industry that we’re in nowadays, especially with like our young people like us who have like a great capacity to learn and multiple formats. We have the bloody internet, like, I’m sorry, you have no excuse to not learn anything anymore. You have the internet is an incredible TED talk. I can’t remember the name of late he does it but it’s called multi potential lights. And essentially, it’s like people who have skills and incredibly different fields. Some guys like a neurologist, or he’s a neurosurgeon, and he also makes violins. So you’re like, how do these have parallel? But I do all of it.

4:51
Oh, really.

4:52
It’s like, don’t be afraid to like study something completely different if you feel the way that it applies. And if you talk to someone who was actually in the industry who recognized in the industry and they say, you know, that’s not a bad way to go, go for it. torch everything go for it Sunday.

5:07
Oh, that’s beautiful. Okay, you’re going to be an architect now anyways in the future anyways. And you’re obviously doing very well at it. So what’s something you wish you knew when you first started? But if you could go back in time to kind of when you first had the idea of architecture like what what do you wish you had known?

5:25
Ooh, man, you’re throwing me far back here. Um, what would I wanted? No, I mean, I have two answers to that, I guess. So being someone who like I have pretty severe ADHD, I just struggle in academia, you can’t hand me a textbook and tell me to write a test. Like I’m just gonna throw the book at you and be like, No, I’m gonna go build something instead, you can grade that. So for me, what I wish I had known is that it’s okay to like, Go, Go have to go through things differently. You don’t have to pursue like a traditional format. You don’t have to go to college to get a degree. You don’t Don’t have to go to college to get a job. I mean, Frak you go get a blue collar like trade these days and be making over 100 k in Canada that’s a slay amount of money. Right? So there’s, there’s so many more opportunities than what people try to like kind of push you towards whatever social base mental structure you have, but oh, I need to do this to succeed. Kids 99% of time this bullshit, you can go to everyone. And if I was like, more academically minded person, there’s an incredible YouTube video by Chris Doe, he talks about kind of optimizing your university experience and it kind of he builds it around the Japanese concept of icky guy or like a reason to being you can go look up his video on YouTube, if you want. It’s an incredible resource. The guy’s a phenomenal, like kind of mentor. And he puts it really simply, he’s like, aim for what you want, and then plan backwards through university degree. So pick your courses, pick your instructors, pick them carefully, put the energy where it’s supposed to be so you can gain the most value out of those courses and pass everything else and then come out with the knowledge you need, not the grades because when as soon as you leave University, no one cares about.

7:02
That’s so true.

7:05
When I’m trying to push with this, with the podcast and everything, it’s so it’s so true and the fact that it’s all about just setting a goal and just reverse engineering that, like you said. And what he said made that video it was at a TED talk or something that was

7:18
there’s Chris Doe, he’s a pretty famous designer down the US has a YouTube channel called the future th e. f. You are incredibly well regarded does some really great pieces. I would if, if anyone who’s listening, you listen to christow, if you’re a designer or creative of any sort, he’ll give you the business side of things, and he will lay it straight into you. And it’s brilliant.

7:41
That’s, that’s brilliant. Yeah. And I got another question for you. So as you look back, so I’ll take a step back here. When did you start architecture? What made you say architecture was something or UX design with something you wanted to do?

7:57
All right. Do you want the long story the short story because a long survey See my life story? Is it in the cliff notes? Right? It gives us a halfway between the two. Yeah, exactly. Um, let’s see. Okay, so So I mean, as a young child, I was always like playing with stuff and building Legos and building small cities in my bedroom and making my parents walk through and to wake me up the morning. So they were like, Andrew, you should go be an architect. And I was like, yeah, ma. Yeah. I angsty teenage hood, angsty young adulthood, abdicated that dream tried to chase a couple other things. And then I was very fortunate. I had a family friend was actually architect in a local firm. And I kind of had an epiphany. I’m like, Oh, I should really do something I’m passionate about not just do a job to pay my bills and be successful. And so I asked him if I could talk to him about architecture, and instead of getting coffee and 30 minutes his office, he ended up having me sit down and one of their principal meetings for one of their project ideations, and I just got to watch like a artex. tear this idea to pieces for two hours. Oh, it’s amazing. So I walked out of that meeting, I was just like zealous about doing a creative career. That point it didn’t matter where UX design UX strategy architecture at this point, really, I came into UX to do architecture, but I’m finding so many more opportunities to use all the talents that I have that I could go get my masters and never work in architecture. Again, I could go start a design firm, like I was actually thinking, going to Berlin to start a design firm with someone. So it’s like the world’s my oyster now. And that’s kind of, I guess, really, if you’re to distill it down, what got me into architecture was the ability to inspire people with the work I do, and to do things creatively. And with a lot of freedom, like really, people come to you in the go, we have a problem. And we have this really strict set of opportunity or like restrictions to work and we need you to come up with solution. It needs to be good and it needs to be beautiful and needs to inspire people and it was like that whole concept was like I wonder architecture.

9:53
It’s fantastic. Wow, that it’s so good that you’ve just got like a whole back Top story for it because that’s what’s going to drive you and not. It’s It sounds so good just to hear you speak passionately as you are about it as well. That’s amazing man.

10:09
It took a while to get here. Like anyone that’s listening by all means like, don’t be afraid to suffer to get through your goals and don’t be upset at yourself and you had to suffer for years to figure that out. Like I’m 29 years old and I don’t even have my Masters yet. I haven’t even started my Masters yet. Like, you’re never too young to reinvent the wheel. You’re never too young to like, do what you really are passionate about. So if you’re like four years into your bachelor’s and your I hate this, turn around and go do something new. Like do whatever you want and do what makes you happy and passionate because Alan Watts and incredible philosopher puts this really beautifully and he’s like it is far better to live a very short life full of the things you love than to live a long life of suffering and doing things you hate. And I was that that just like railed me and I was like okay, fuck everything else. I’m gonna go to architecture.

10:56
That is so good man. Like yet? No. too. Oh, that’s it. That’s so true. Oh my gosh. And yeah, everyone’s thinking 25. So they’re gonna have their life sorted out, but that’s highly No,

11:08
no, I’m sorry. If you have a really good idea what you’re doing at 25 you are ahead of the curve.

11:13
Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah, by the time you’re 40 you not even halfway through your life. And that’s just something that people have lost perspective on. I reckon. It’s crazy.

11:23
I mean, the context we’ve lived our lives and is what our parents told us, right. And our parents are born in a generation where they’re like, their grandparents, like, their life expectancy was in their 60s, right. And they’re supposed to be deep in their 70s. We’re like, deep into her 80s like it’s exploded, majority of us are gonna live into our 90s easily with the medical tech that’s coming out in the next three decades. Right. So you’re 20 years old. You’re less than a quarter through your life. So much time get out there and do whatever makes you happy, man.

11:51
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. That’s such a good message for everyone else listening as well. I think probably the majority of the fan base listening to the podcast is all First Year architecture students fresh out of high school day. And they were thinking, oh, I’ve got to have it all all sorted out before I, before I graduate high school and yeah, so

12:10
yeah, it’s really unfortunate. But like, honestly, like, it’s great to if you have if you’re really passionate about something, then just chase that it doesn’t have you don’t have to know. That’s what you want to do. Like, I’m sorry, your life can change all the time, right? There’s a there’s an incredible book that I tell pretty much anyone who’s like, I’m not sure exactly what to do with my life. And I’m okay, they need to read this book, and it’s called designing your life. And it’s an incredible piece of work by a pair of Stanford preset professors that basic camp with this concept of using design thinking to align and like plan out your own life but not even really plan it just kind of like get some rough points of reference be like all right, well, that sounds like a really cool thing. I like doing that. Let’s go do that for the rest of my life. And then you just adapt and change it as you go along. You could be in architecture school could come out in like, two three years and be like, you know, this is fun, but heard about this other thing, right? And then you like run off in that direction then using what you learned you become a master in something else. And then your life just turns into some complete other pile of nonsense you couldn’t have tried? Or like even thought about writing a book about if you did, you just went with it and you were happy. And that’s what matters in the end.

13:14
That’s so true. Oh my gosh, that’s amazing messages already. Well,

13:20
I’m pretty existential person. So you definitely

13:23
Yeah, you definitely know what you’re talking about, man. Like, it’s incredible. The fact that you’ve just got so much back knowledge as well about what you’re talking about. It’s, it’s really good. It’s really refreshing to hear from you. So that’s awesome. Too sweet. So

13:39
as you look back over the years of

13:43
the many years you’ve spent from the point you were a child playing with Legos to where you are now studying, UX design, getting into your architecture stuff. What do you think has been the most challenging thing for you?

14:00
You know, that’s that’s a tricky one for a couple of regards, just because they kind of the things that I’ve struggled through to get here, each kind of their own epiphany in their own way. But I would say like, probably the more universal ones are, it’s okay to suck. And generally, it’s a really good thing if you suck at something, because that means you can only get really good at it. Because generally, if you suck at something, that means you’ve started really far down so you only have up to go. And it means you get to learn all those lessons along the way you get to keep using as you go forward. So if you like something and you suck at it, that’s okay. Go learn to suck at it. I mean, you mentioned I think I remember you mentioning Jordan Peterson, one of your podcasts and he says essentially the same thing is like, anything that’s worth doing is worth doing really badly. Right? So be okay with being crap at things. That’s I would think I would think that’d be the first one like I used to suck at drawing, and my parents dumped like, thousands of dollars into me into art lessons and stuff and I was trash and drawing. And now I’m not quite so bad. But I had to be okay with sucking. And I think that was one of the really hard lessons was just being okay with being bad at something in order to get good at it. And the other one is accepting that like, each person is talented at their own things each each human being has their own specific set of mix of things that they can and cannot do. And it’s okay if other people are better at you in certain things. And it’s actually this is was something really important I only learned recently. It’s really okay if someone is way better than you at something you like. Because them being super good at the thing that you want to be good at doesn’t take any potential away from you being good at it either. So if anything, give them a high five tell them how awesome they are and then ask them how the hell they did it because they’re gonna help you get better too.

15:42
Well, yeah, I thought that last one really hit me there as well because it’s like, so many people would think if they want to build the biggest tower in town and they have to rip down everybody else’s, but it’s the exact opposite. You can keep building up your tower and it’s not going to affect anybody else or they’re they’re not going to affect you building up your own tower. Yeah, I really, really, really like that, that you’re saying that because it’s also, yeah, the fact that everyone thinks like, I’ve got a mate of mine in the class. Definitely not gonna mention any names or anything but he says, he’ll go into the credits at the, you know, at the end of the semester that he’s done all this work, like we’re done at work. And he’ll walk into the class look at everyone else’s and think, Oh, well, my work is, like, terrible. It’s, I’ve done the wrong sizes and the wrong drawings and everything. Yeah, I tell him that it’s like exactly what you just said, you know, just because someone else has done it better than you. That’s doesn’t affect you. I don’t like that should drive you and that should. Yeah.

16:40
Yeah. It should encourage you to the potential what can be done because you can see the work that they’re doing like wow, that was so cool. How did you do that? Like that’s the first thing I asked myself now is when I see something that makes me feel jealous or I get that like kind of the envy and me or the immediate thing, I go Okay, well, then I have to ask them how they did it. I don’t want to be upset about that. They did it. I want to find out how it So we can learn and that that just that experience alone of like talking to someone and most the time people are pretty damn humble. And if they’re not humble then I mean, I’ve got a whole separate set of words I can say about that. But just like except that people can be great at things and I mean, you don’t have to build the biggest tower. You don’t have to build the tallest thing. You don’t have to build the smoothest most organic looking thing like Zod needs architects something those crazy psychopaths, God bless them. But like find your niche find your good, some credible playing with lights. There’s that um, what is the architect turned artists? Have you seen the abstract series on Netflix?

17:38
Yeah, you figure Yeah.

17:40
I know. There’s a particular guy in there and his whole episode is about him basically playing with light and space. And he does a whole bunch of work he did that um, that famous. Oh, I’m blanking on everything right now. He does really famous building which kind of has this like a glass like cube facade and then this like mirrored surface that looks like you’re in the inside of a Year.

18:00
Oh, I know. Oh yeah. So

18:03
like that guy. Like, he’s so good at playing with light and they’re not big massive buildings. But when you go inside the way the light is structured to play in the space, you’re just like, yeah, okay, hold on who did this right? So, architecture is so beautiful because you have so many different things you can play with, you can play with the sound in the building. Like how many of you how many people have actually walked in, like looked at their design be like, how can I stick around with the sound in here? How can I make your experience of hearing where you are different? Right? You have all of the elements in your palms, do what you want with them. Oh

18:35
my gosh, yeah, that’s so true. Like, just so many different aspects that you can play with. And if you’re an imaginative, imaginative person or you’re creative, then that the world is your limit. Like there’s no limitations to what you can do it and that’s, that’s why I love architecture. And I guess that’s why you love it as well.

18:52
Yeah, I mean, my biggest thing about it is like the reason I actually picked UX design specifically was because UX is about the interaction between man and technology. Specifically, right? We’re about the experience, right? And the frontier of experience. Now it’s technology. It’s digital. It’s VR AR, interfacing, all that jazz. Can you guys imagine what we’re going to be able to do when we begin integrating technology directly into the building itself? Like, I walk up to an elevator and there’s no button, and I’m like, Oh, wait, maybe if I swipe it like I do on my phone, you swipe up and then the elevator opens up to go up. Like things like that, like how much of us started thinking of things like this, we can begin using with our technology and our buildings, right? That is what blows my mind. And I’m like, I want to dick around with that.

19:34
I was actually talking about that in one of my last episodes, and someone asked me in the FAQ episode, what my like, what my take on the future of design and the way that was heading, and I was just it got me thinking about AR and VR and like voice recognition, all this. It’s It’s crazy to think about that stuff. But actually, I want to I want to kind of, like put that question on you like where do you see, like the future of technology and And how do you think it’s going to change the way we design?

20:03
You know, actually, I had a really interesting conversation with a person about this not too long ago. And it’s going to take a bit of a divergence, but I will get there, I promise. So the idea I had was like using AR and VR, like because we had Google Glass and we all know that was a bloody joke, right? But that that will let style of interfacing will come back, right, you’ll project off your phone or wherever else right we’ve already got the galaxy fold the phone that folds in half and has two screens, right? What happens when that screen can project upwards? I’ve got a hologram out of your phone, right? There’s all sorts of cool tech like that coming forward. So I want buildings to begin interfacing with that kind of tech like I want when I walk into a building I want my phone to automatically linked to the Wi Fi in the building and it checks my calendar and goes Oh, you’re on the third floor two doors down to the left. Right and I’d be like whoa, sweetest sound off to my appointment like I don’t have to like worry about anything. I interact with the building the building and me have a conversation we haven’t experienced together right? Now, VR and AR where things are gonna get fun with that, right? Because they could walk into a building and be like, oh, there’s nothing on these walls. Oh, right, I’ve got my thing. You put your thing on your eye. And also, there’s like, signs everywhere telling you where to go. But you get to retain that like super clean aesthetic for the building because it’s all digital now. Right? Not unlike altered carbon, the first episode of there, the guy puts on some kind of I think, and just like the whole city erupts in color, and you’re like, Oh, right, because everything’s digital now. So I see a lot of potential there. I mean, VR, obviously, as architects, we can build our designs in VR, and then have people walk through our, our buildings before we build them, right? We don’t just have to build models, we can build actual interactable buildings that you can play around in. Right, that’s going to be a really big frontier. But the conversation I had that really challenged me on this was I was talking to this woman and I mentioned this idea to her and she’s like, why would you do that? I was like we watch right? She’s like, you’re taking away human interaction. I was I blew my mind because I was like, Oh, yeah, there’s like no receptionist there anymore. I don’t have to ask anyone for directions. It’s not a concierge, there’s not a there’s not a doorman, there’s like, there’s not a receptionist like all of this human interactivity that would have been there has been stripped away. And technology’s been put in its place. And that was a really huge challenge. I was like, Yeah, because this is an architect, I should be really concerned about sociology, I should be really concerned about ensuring that humans remain human. And by adding technology and taking some humanity. So how do I balance that back? And that was what was like, the big question is like, yeah, there’s a really cool technological opportunities, and we need to be paying a lot of attention to it. And you need to be learning as much as you can. If you guys are in architecture, and you’re studying, and you’re not trying to learn about VR and AR you are behind the curve, like no questions about that. Go to VR conferences, like that’s a big one to go to conferences, go to conferences, go to design conferences, go to technology conferences, go to these things. Listen, talk to people network, that’s your future. But then remember that every time you add something, remember what you’re taking away? Because as an architect, your job is about equilibrium and balance. And by building buildings, we build structures and experiences for people. We have to understand what we’re doing and taking from these people at the same time.

23:15
Yeah, definitely.

23:17
Yeah, that was it. That was an arthouse mouthful.

23:19
Oh, yeah. Oh, yes. So many, so many great points there as well, though, and you talk about networking and going to conferences and stuff. How do you find like someone who’s just getting into architecture that say they’re going into their first year of architecture? How do they expose themselves to these kinds of things and how do they reach out to other people and go to these conferences? Is there a white Hmm?

23:40
So I guess the first thing but don’t be afraid Don’t be afraid of being new again. Like it kind of goes back to like don’t be afraid of being bad at something right. Your new your first year in architecture, no one expects you to actually have a flushed out like design and a crate with glowing praise. I’m sorry, that’s not happening. And everyone knows you suck and they love it. It’s okay. Right? But I think that that’s the first thing is not being afraid, right? And if you’re a more introverted person, find someone in your class or someone who you’re friends with who’s into the same kind of thing as you who’s more extroverted, and then just kind of latch onto them, like a piggyback ride and just go along with them. Right? That is a huge help. I do that for a bunch of my more introverted friends. I went down to Seattle interactive last year in November conference down in Seattle about technology and design. And I was carrying around a couple introverted friends basically, because I’m just a flaming ball of fusion like socialization, right? So they were just like, okay, we’re just gonna come along with you now. So yeah, you use your friends, use your resources to like, do better. But I think biggest thing is, don’t be afraid and get out there. Get into them, right. Don’t be afraid to message people on LinkedIn who are in your field, right? You would be shocked how willing more senior people generally are to help you like, yeah, there’s some duds I’ve run into a couple I’ve run into people who I’ll just basically never talk to again because a year ago You’re rude. This is not. This is not how you treat someone new in your field, right? But you will meet people who care a lot about passing on their experience, right? And when a young person comes to them hungry to like learn, and has taken that ambitious step to say, Hey, I suck, I want to learn more. Can you help me? That’s it. People love hearing that. Like, it’s not a bad thing to say to someone, hey, I kind of have no idea what I’m talking about. But I’m super passionate about this. Can you help me? Like at the worst, they’ll be like, go read a book and say, Okay, can you suggest a book for me? And then bang, you’ve now got a great book to read. Oh, no, boo hoo. Right? Like, don’t be afraid to go out and do these things. And conferences are frickin expensive. But I know some schools will actually help their students go to conferences with cost. So look at that, right? A lot of conferences have cheaper student tickets, right? Like Seattle interactive $400 less for the ticket as a student. That’s a big chunk of change to save right that basically paid for the rest of my trip. Right. So Go to these things network, talk to people. Don’t be afraid to just walk up to them be like, Hi. Like it starts up high. You don’t need much more than that. Trust me.

26:09
So true. So true. Wow. And when I first started, when I was in my first year as well, like, I was exactly like that I was on the opposite of what you’re saying, I was afraid of no. And I went to one firm down like that, like the first firm that is in my vicinity, I guess. And I went there and I handed him my resume, and I said, if there’s anything I can do, I’d happy to work for free. And they said, they pretty much turned me away. Instead, we only looking for fourth and fifth year students. And as much as that destroyed me in that moment, being told no, it was probably the best thing because then I tried. I tried another four or five times at other firms. And in the end, I ended up being one of those like, older directors at a firm who was completely about helping and mentoring younger people. And if I just mentioned First firm and even if I got in, it wouldn’t have been the best experience for me. But being told no is probably one of the best things that can happen, I would say.

27:08
Absolutely. I mean, being told no doesn’t mean you suck. I’m definitely It doesn’t mean that you’re bad. It doesn’t mean that you don’t have a future it just means that your intent and goals and with those other people’s intention goals, that doesn’t take anything away from you, it just means that you two aren’t aligned. That’s okay. There’s 8 billion people on earth you’re not going to align with a lot of them. That’s perfectly fine. Go find people that you do.

27:33
Yeah, so truly.

27:36
I’m gonna hit you up with a bit of a fire around just a couple of short questions. So who is your favorite architect?

27:45
The Lakeside deed but like caught her work just inspires me every single time I see it, no questions asked. And her firm has done an amazing job of continuing her work. Yeah,

27:54
of course, of course. And what would be your favorite building then?

28:03
Oh God Oh I actually I’m really

28:06
I can’t remember I can’t remember the name it was that conference like the the orchestra Hall that’s all I had the architects did the way she like made that senior like undelete downwards that just was beautiful but the new building that just put up in Beijing with the central atrium was so Whoa, that just the technology in that building blows my mind and I’m like that that’s amazing work right there.

28:28
So is that what is that what what drives you as well if you if someone has technology kind of immersed in with the architecture does that kind of appeal to you?

28:37
I think Yeah, I think that’s definitely it when you when you look past the brick and mortar you look past like the material science of it and you look into like the the technological potential of something or and you give the building itself life when you add technology to it because you allow it to think breathe and move. Right and as soon as you can do that. You’re now playing with a living being and I’m playing with the building anymore.

28:59
Well, I’m absolutely loving this. We are running out of time. But I want to ask you like, Is there anything that any any piece of advice or anything that you want to talk about or anything that you think I’ve missed?

29:11
Anything on your mind?

29:12
I mean, I think it’s, it’s been

29:15
I think it’s been like hyper positive, which is something really important. I think it’s important to hear a lot of good things, but what you’re doing and be passionate about and enjoy it, but I think we always need to be sure that we caveat that with reality, right? You may suck at what you love to do. And that’s okay, but maybe it just means it’s not exactly what you should exactly do. Right. There are many ways to do what you love in different manners, right? abstract is a great example of enemy you want to like just see people that are credible at their work and are like at the top of their game, go watch abstract. It’s, it’s an incredible series, but understand at the same time that you may never reach that level. Right? And it’s gonna be hard no matter what you decide to do, right. If you really love something, it should be we’re struggling through it, but that doesn’t mean that It’s gonna be easy. You’re gonna have hard days I have hard days, I have days where I go to clients to do work, and they’re just basically this is crap. Why am I paying you? And I’m like, Oh, crap.

30:12
That’s not good.

30:14
You will have hard days you will have hard times it will be a struggle, you will cry, you will metaphysical metaphorically bleed your way through this. But put your head down, believe in yourself. Be passionate about what you’re doing. Learn every single day, every minute, you can be learning something. And you’ll be just fine.

30:35
Andrew, thank you so much. Wow. So many great points there. And I really appreciate you being on the show. I couldn’t couldn’t have asked for anything more from you. That was amazing. Thanks so much, man.

30:46
Hey, it’s my pleasure that you even took me on. I really appreciate the opportunity to talk so

30:50
and saying Oh, you’re saying you were telling me earlier that you’re going to be starting up your own podcast as well. Is there anything like is there anything people can do to To find that or to find you on social media at the moment,

31:03
um, I mean, we don’t have it up exactly yet. We’re just planning out our first episode. It’ll be about later this week, hopefully, and we’ll do some mixing and throw that up there. But you guys can find me in a variety of places. You can find me on LinkedIn, on a Mac D design, solid be backslash a m a CD design. You can find me on my Facebook if you want imagine McDonald’s. Or probably the best way to reach me if you want to talk or follow up on it will be at my Instagram, which is at nets, i n e th es e ye. I’ll be posting on there about it. And that’s generally where I kind of hide and write super long existential stuff about why I breeze.

31:43
Again, thank you so much. Well, sure I’ll catch up with you soon as well for another Co.

31:48
I appreciate it hates man. It was my pleasure. And hey, Kyle, you’re doing great work. Be proud of yourself. Thank you so much.

31:56
Hey, guys, thank you so much for making it this far through the episode. I’m hoping We’ve got something valuable out of it and you’ve enjoyed listening or watching this wherever you may be. If you guys want to join the discussion Be sure to comment down below or send me an email at Kyle at successful Aki soon calm and if you want to be the next interviewee on the on the show, definitely just send me an email or message me on Instagram at success while he soon and we can set it up. Andrew again. I had so much fun on the call today and I really appreciate you taking the time out to talk with me those listening Take care, and I’ll see you in the next episode of successful archi students podcast.