Kyle 

I am here with the man, the myth, the legend. Sketch like an architect, David. David, how you doing?

David 

Hey, guys, thanks so much for having me. I think this is gonna be fun.

Kyle 

Oh yeah. So for those listening, this is the Successful Archi Student’s podcast episode 34. And David, I’m super pumped to jump into this episode.

Could you start off by telling us a bit about yourself, you know who you are and where you’re from?

David 

Sure. Hey, everyone. I’m David. Thanks for the kind introduction. I usually present myself as a young architect who loves to sketch really, that’s what I am. I’m a young architect, trained architect. I’m based in Prague, even though for the last five years, I was living in Denmark in different places and working as a full time architect in Denmark. I was studying architecture both in Prague, I did my bachelor in Prague, and then I did my masters in Denmark. And then I worked in Denmark. And now now I’m back in Prague again, with my family. So this Just a short, very short intro about where I am right now.

Kyle 

Awesome. Can you tell us a bit more about Sketch Like an Architect? What is it and what made you decide it was something you wanted to do?

David 

Alright, did goes back roughly three years. Three years ago, I started just after my graduation. It was it was a tough period for me, because we just finished our studies in Denmark architectural studies, we moved to Copenhagen to look for jobs and there was a period of time where I was unemployed. And when I sometimes referred to we, I mean, me and my girlfriend back then now my wife and we are both architects. We studied the whole time together, and we also moved to Denmark together. But in the unemployment period of time, when I was looking for a job, I thought I would take it also as an opportunity to start something that I would never have the chance to start otherwise because I would be busy with other things in life like full time job, and and and stuff like that I actually took the opportunity to create something that I felt like was a bit needed during my studies. And that was all the values and benefits that I got from hand sketching, because very often, during our studies, we worked in groups and I was the only one in our group always to make any kind of hand sketches and presentation sketches. I felt like there was a huge benefits of hand sketching, like you can brainstorm stuff, you can iterate their design, you can problem solve, you can just get into the flow because you’re using super simple tools. And I felt like many of my other peers would also benefit from just basic tips on how to sketch like an architect how to do the architectural style of sketching in that period of unemployment. I felt like okay, let’s give it a go. And I started creating kind of educational material. It was a it was a PDF handbook and a company online course. So I was doing a lot of online courses. So I was like, Okay, I want to try it my own to create an online course. And that’s that’s how it really started. And on the way, at the same time, I think it was late 2016 and beginning of 2017, I started with that platform, which everyone was talking about, which is Instagram. I was pretty late to that game. But finally, it was time for me to give it a go. Yeah, it was really a special time. It was not super happy time because I felt a lot of pressure as I was unemployed. But at the same time, I give it a shot to pursue this a little personal project of mine, which really made sense to me at the time, and it still does today as I’ve been putting together educational content on the basics of architectural sketching. I’ve been sharing the the progress on Instagram, and that’s where it actually all started. And that’s where it took off. And I’m pretty much doing almost the same just in more progress way. Today, it’s that there’s been a lot of change. But that’s that’s the very origins. So yeah, that’s,

that’s how it all started.

Kyle 

That’s really cool. So I want to start this off by talking about sketching, which is your niche. I would say later, I want to dive into your entrepreneurial journey and your professional life, but to start this off . . .

With technology taking over, why do you think sketching is a useful skill to have?

David 

such a great question? Okay, let me let me let me explain what I believe. And it’s actually not something that I just believe in. But it’s proven by many tests that when you use such simple tools as pen and paper, and you start to sketch things out, you’re in a very specific mindset, and your juices starts to flow and you get into a very creative mood. It’s called official this state of flow, right? That means that your creativity, your problem solving, skills are at its peak. And because of the instant connection between your hands in your mind, and that’s when using simple tools, it’s much easier to get into this flow. And as I’ve said before, you can use it for many different things for quickly communicating your ideas to your peers, your students, your supervisors, to her clients, for problem solving, sketching things out, right, either for construction details, or for floor plan layouts or anything else. You can brainstorm new ideas, you can, you can solve problems. Or you can sketch and train your imagination and just iterate your design layer up use tracing paper. So that’s super powerful. What’s really important is the mindset that you get into. And that doesn’t happen with any technological barrier. When I when I really don’t know what I want to do. And I jumped into, let’s say, auto get, or any BIM software, which is even heavier. I suddenly have my mouse I have a keyboard I have some user interface. I have Some icons to click on and I’m thinking okay, well, should I click on what does this tool do? How can I use it how to be effective as a completely different state of mind in different zone, not really the creative one where I wants to focus solely on coming up or developing an idea and getting creatively progress in some way. So what I always recommend is starting out with analog approach, sketching things out, and once I get some clearer idea about what I want to achieve, I can jump into digital software to get more precise or get more shareable or editable or stuff like this. I’m not saying to sketch all the way but I think it’s a great tool for the initial phases, as well as presentation at the end. It’s really up to your taste. But that’s that’s the biggest advantages and the values and benefits of hand sketching. What I experienced during my studies in in Denmark was that we too often jumped right into any digital software. And we were lacking really the creative part. And actually all the people that were not that skilled in architectural sketching or sketching in general because they were not taught to by the university. I think it also relates on with how you can really present with any other tool, you know, you can see many digital artists that are absolutely awesome with Photoshop procreate. But it’s funny to see that they’re also absolutely the same awesome with hand sketching. And it’s not a coincidence that you just get to understand all the visual principles in hands. And then you can take those principles and apply it with any other tool. So that’s really super powerful. And that’s why I think it’s still important in even in today’s era, where we’re so focused on technology. So sketch things first, either to develop an idea or to just understand the principles behind image creation, and then take it to any other tool, digital analog mixed media. It’s up to you.

Kyle 

Yeah, I guess that’s why all the universities start off with hand sketching in their first couple of years. Yes. But I guess that’s something that throws people away from sketching is this idea of hand sketching getting overtaken by technology.

Where do you see the future in regards to architectural hand sketching? Do you still think it will be relevant in 10, 20, 50 years time?

David 

Yes, I believe so. And the thing is, I think it’s it’s even in bigger demand in high demand today, because it’s so it’s becoming rare. As we have so many digital tools that are very accessible. I’m not saying always easy to learn or easy to use, but they’re very accessible and they’re kind of the shining herbs in there. Great, I’m a big fan of them. I’m a big fan of architectural visualizations, VR and all that stuff. But at the same time, I still see a huge value in in hand sketching. And you can, you can tell that like very unique and signature approach to hand sketching can be very recognizable. And you can see it on many, many examples, me included, but you can just look at Instagram on Pinterest on. So you can really tell a specific style from specific people and it will be always unique to you. While if you look at most architectural visualizations today, and we are striving for that photorealistic look, right, they pretty much look all the same, and you can’t really tell from which architecture company the design is from which visualization company, and if the image is you can’t really tell apart because we all use the same tools, same approaches, same photorealistic style. So it’s kind of becoming more yet opposite of unique crafting and getting down with your sketching skills is something that you can really build a very unique style for yourself for your graphic representation. And it can be a combination of hand sketch, and digitally, you know, you can play with it as you like, but you will get very unique, you’ll stand out. So and because fewer and fewer people keep doing this, it’s becoming more rare and more in demand. So yes, I’m a big fan of technology. But as I’ve said, I still believe in the in the huge values of hand sketching and how you can actually utilize that to craft your own style. Very unique to you very recognizable.

Kyle 

Yeah, that is such a great point. The fact that it’s just it’s a way of making, having go in style having your indistinguishable from teaches which, you know, helps you stand out. And that’s what being an architecture students all about. If you’re just like the masters and you’re just like everyone else, then you know, you’ve got no leverage or you’ve got no higher ability because of that.

David 

Sorry can I just jump in with one thing,

Kyle 

Go for it.

David 

Yeah. Because you reminded me what the university teaches any university cannot teach you how to be unique. And they are not here to teach you how to be unique, how to find your style, how to craft your own path. They’re simply not here for that reason. And they cannot possibly be here for that because they have to, you know, take care of hundreds if not thousands of students, so they don’t have the potential to work with you one on one to really find your own unique status. So you need to kind of get extra curricular and use your spare time to develop yourself in dead area. This is something to keep in mind. Universities are great environments. eye opening great for networking opportunities and many stuff. But it seems to be that it’s just not enough to get all the knowledge from the university you need to educate yourself outside as well outside of university. And this is one of the great examples to really find your unique voice and unique style and approach to things.

Kyle 

I’m so glad you added that in that’s such a great point that Yeah, university is for the Masters it’s, it’s what you do on the side that’s gonna help you stand out. So thanks for adding that in.

Something I see you doing quite often is integrating sketching in with the technology specifically in the use of using an iPad or tablet of some sort.

So firstly, can you tell us what apps you use for architectural hand sketching and what are some of the benefits of sketching on a tablet/ipad?

David 

I it’s a really nice mixture of analog and digital approach, where you really take the advantages of both areas. It’s been some time that I’ve been using an iPad really quite a small iPad from 2018, small and OLED. So you don’t get you don’t need to get any any fence in it. I just got a comment on my Instagram like what iPad should I get? And I answered very simply like the one you can afford. It’s as simple as that you don’t get, you don’t need to get fancy from from the star. So anything you can get will be great. But yes, it’s a really nice blend between analog and digital space where you really leverage advantages from both spaces, meaning that you have still the connection between your hand and your mind and you get into the creative flow. But at the same time you have all the editing capabilities of digital software, and share ability and kind of precision and all this stuff that comes with a digital software. So in that way I really I really like it. I’ve become a big fan and it was not super smooth transition. Because the feel is a bit different, like the feel of the stylus on the on the glass screen, there are some great protectors like paper like, which is a great screen protector. So you get a bit more paper like feel actually Yeah, it’s a good, it’s a good name. And and the apps that I’m using, I’ve been in a long term collaboration with more folio trace, which is specifically designed for architects. It has all the tools that you would use in an elk way as tracing paper as all the protractors and rulers it has some additions to dat. So you can set things to scale. You can use AR envy, no VR, I guess AR and you can use stencils and stuff. It’s a really nice and handy. A Sketch portfolio trace is definitely one of them. The other, which I also love is procreate. And I would say it’s just like Photoshop only on iPad and I know that Photoshop is now quite freshly also available as a specific app on iPad but I still feel like procreate is just so much more intuitive I really like how intuitive the whole thing is you’ll get accustomed to a very easily so if you know any basics of Photoshop like layering and masks and adjustment layers and all that stuff, then you’ll find your way in procreate very easily. I think I’m using these two the most there’s also Autodesk sketchbook sketching app. I know many industrial designers use that and and concepts which is kind of for note taking but as well as for any kind of visual representation really, but I don’t use these to get much more into my portfolio and procreate. Awesome.

Kyle 

Yeah, some great advice and I just feel like it just got super dark in here in no time at all. So sorry if I’m a bit lighted weirdly.

Digital or not, what are some of the other tools you use when sketching? Do you use any special kind of pens? Do you specifically use a type of brand or a different type of ruler or something like that?

David 

Yeah it’s funny that you asked this actually the most frequent question that I get, and I get it, I get like demotivation the intention behind the question, but at the same time, I kind of needs to address that the tools that you use are very much secondary. It doesn’t matter that much, what kind of tools you’re using, and that’s actually a part of my approach. I don’t use rulers when I sketch in my hands. I just do all freehand and I’m taking advantage of some knowledge from you know, constructive geometry or descriptive geometry in constructing perspective and stuff. But I don’t really use rulers or protectors or anything like that and trying to teach in a way that you can use tool. If it’s a bullpen or you know some fine liner or a pencil, it doesn’t really matter that much. If you know what you want to say in a visual way and you know how to say it, the tools don’t matter deathmatch, the tools without you are nothing You are the artist. But when we get a little bit deeper into nitty gritty stuff, I’m using a lot of fine liners just simple pens, black pens with different line weights. Very often I use a set of different line weights from 0.1 to one millimeter. So I can get the variation of the line thicknesses and to create depth and contrast and these things in my in my sketches. And I use very often I think settler settler pigment, fine fine liners, that’s what I have in here. And also unit pin and and recently I’ve been also using R TX fineliners so that’s that’s what I’m using. But yeah, these are what I use kind of my favorite that I’m used to. But again, I need to stress out that it doesn’t matter that much.

Kyle  

That’s that’s the perfect answer. Because so many students come up to me or asked me and they’ll be like, before I get started, but what should I spend 500 bucks on pens and stuff, I might just get you what you’ve got to start just drawing. That’s what it’s about. So I’m glad you said that.

David 

Exactly, exactly. It’s really just much more about spending the time putting the effort and practicing. I’m not even a big believer in talent. You know, I think hard work beats talent every time. It’s great if you put in both if you have both, but talent on its own is is not going to do much. You just need to harness really the skill and practice, practice, practice. I know it’s a cliche, but it’s a cliche because it’s true. You can spend time smartly in a smart way how to practice and it’s I think, very Important to be efficient when knowing what you want to achieve with practicing. Okay, what do I need to get better in order to take my sketches and drawings and visual in any way to the next level? What do I need to understand? Do I need to understand perspective? Do I need to understand how to create depth in images? Do I need to understand scale and proportion? All the other visual principles or where am I actually on the on the little pyramids, which I haven’t talked about, but I would love to get into because it’s such a nice concept.

Kyle 

So explain that.

David 

Okay, I’ve, let’s, let’s imagine because this will be a podcast too. So let’s imagine a super, super simple pyramid concept. Like you have three layers of the pyramid, some foundations and middle and some top of the pyramid, something like Maslow’s pyramid of needs, right? So this is just with three levels and at the bottom level where you start, and I’m talking about this pyramid in regards to how We learn to draw versus how we design. So it’s relatable for architectural design very much, as well as for any type of drawing. So we start at the bottom, and there are skills. And it means the very hard skills of getting to know getting familiar with the tool that you use. And it might be a pencil and a pen, or it might be a Photoshop, you know, or any ad, it doesn’t mean it’s a tool and you need to harvest hard skills, to get to know the tools and know how to use it. Actually, learning pencil is very difficult as it has so many variations on which kind of stroke you you want to make. And it can be combination of different strokes, because you have the pressure and the tilde and different value of of your stroke. So it’s actually very complex. So there’s the hard skills what we actually use for learning these is observation drawings. We’re trying to replicate what we see and put it, put it on paper, right. And that’s great for learning a little bit about perspective, a little bit about proportions, kale, visual measuring, and all that kind of basic stuff. And once you somehow get that down to basic hard skills, you can progress under the second level. And that is, that is composition. So at the first level, you’re drawing from observation. So basically, the composition is set for you. It’s, it’s, it’s given. But if you want to really take it to the next level, you should understand how images how good images are created. So you need to learn about composition, about structure of composition, about depth about visual principles, all this stuff, so you know, what makes a good image and why does it work so, and you’ll get to analyze good images and you’ll find yourself okay, they’re using the strong 1.1% effectives to really drive all the attention of the viewer towards a certain focal point. And now we’re start talking about that and focal point and focal areas, and how actually your eyes go along an image, which is very much in your control how the viewers consume your image. And that’s what all the composition stuff is about. So you get the basic skills, you get the composition and the second level. So you’re not dependent on observation drawings, but you can put your ideas on paper in a very appealing way. That’s what the composition is for. And the very top and the very top of the pyramid is the idea that you give to your images. And when it comes to learn to draw, it’s something that you just need to get to, but when it comes to designing, it’s actually the opposite way. We start with the idea. And then we try to create a composition of different elements. And then we use our hard skills to represent that idea to create drawings, visualizations, diagrams, all that stuff. Of course, it’s a bit simplified model, but in a way it works like that.

Kyle 

Was that something that you came up with? That pyramid?

David 

No, I think I’ve just adopted it more to art, textural sketching and design. But I’ve heard it for the first time from I just forgot the name, I just put your name, read it. I will, I will need to know and we can put it in the show notes. He’s He’s a great American drawing teacher with a lot of experience in the film and animation industry. And he talks about this concept, how you learned to draw and then I just took it and adapted also to how we design which is basically just the opposite way going from the top down on the pyramid. So it’s just, I think it’s very helpful to just realize, okay, in which part of this pyramid and my ads when it comes to drawing, right?

Kyle 

It’s consciously being aware of what your skills are.

David 

Yeah. And where do I what what do I need to focus on next, to take it to the next level to progress because progress is happiness. Basically, when you progress, you kind of feel satisfied and happy. It feels good when when things are moving forward, right. So it’s so important not to get stuck in any of those faces, but always seek out what to do what to do next, how to improve. And again, it’s really nice that you can take these exact principles and apply them to both hand sketching, but also visualizations in Photoshop, any type of vector diagrams, you know, any type of illustration that you photography video. Do all that stuff, all those visual principles apply the same. So it’s just a super natural way to learn them by hand. So, so that what I’ve just described is very deep levels of what the sketch like an architect project was based on. And I know it’s not very, like it’s not obvious from the front surface on the first side, because look how deep we got. Right. But it’s it’s really the foundations of effective visual communication. That’s, that’s what I’m all about. Definitely.

Kyle 

And that pyramid, I think I’ve seen a post of that on your Instagram before. Is that something I would have seen? Yeah, yeah. And we’ll plug in here. What is your Instagram? We’ll put it on the screen as well.

David 

It’s @David_Drazil

Kyle 

Cool. Yeah. And I highly recommend everyone does go follow David because he Yeah, he has these tips. He posts every couple of days and If you follow them, you’ll become a better sketcher. And that’s what I found. So go follow them, we should move on.

What are your thoughts on sketching in the profession of architecture, because it’s something I see a lot of students doing in their first years, as I said earlier, but it slowly decreases over time. And I love the idea of sketching to grow and evolve ideas, which is something you were mentioning as well, but can I ask, How and when did sketching habits place in the workplace when you were practicing as an architect?

David 

Oh, I have to say in my case, I actually To be honest, I think that hand sketching helped me in all the cases that I got hired. I just brought my sketches and and showed my process, we need to understand that the hiring managers and the decision makers in architecture companies these days are from older generation than we are and they are very much you To use sketching on a frequent basis, that’s how they were designing and that’s how they were even presenting their work very often. And I’m talking about people who are, you know, roughly 40 Plus, all these people are very used to hand sketching. So when a young student at a young fresh graduate brings them sketches, they understand it, they understand the value behind them. So actually in my case, I was hired also because of my my sketches and they were appreciated, but it was a good fit, you know, you need to really worry will target what company you want to work at and why. And then you need to craft your portfolio and the whole application and approach towards it. So you you find a good fit, I was hired. In that process, they also see or saw in me that I have so I’ve had sketching skills. And that’s why I was also used for in the company. So I was very happy to do sketching. And I was doing sketching for both design process for all the rough and dirty sketches that you don’t really present to clients most of the times, and also some presentation or representation sketches for kimono for developers or contractors and subcontractors and all those meetings, then you need to show something quick, but at the same time, understandable, even though it’s in the early phase of development, so you just show nice and understandable sketches. And even better is when you can sit down with your peer with your colleague and you can sketch together on tracing paper, some solutions of the problems that you have with your design. It’s so powerful, it’s so fast. So you and it’s it’s much better than words because you might get misunderstood with words and Every one gets his own visual image in his mind. But if you sketch it out very simply, okay, that’s what I’m talking about. Okay, now, Oh, you mean it like that? All right, you know, and we are on the same page right away. So I’ve been using it actually on everyday basis, even though even when I was practicing as a full time architect for all the phases of the projects, and I was really in a very fortunate position that I was given even the responsibility to create some presentation sketches for clients and for, for the city community and all the other members of the building process. So yes, I was I was using it all the all the time, and I know that not all of my peers were using it, but I felt like it was really handy in so many different opportunities.

Kyle 

Yeah, and I just want to jump back to earlier because you’re talking about And after clarify this for the people out there who think they aren’t or weren’t gifted enough to be good at sketching,

When you first started architectural sketching, were you already good at it as in some natural talent you had from birth that’s in your genetics, or was it? Was it from practicing?

David 

Yeah, hell no. I was no, I was no good.

Kyle 

Excellent. Glad you said that.

David 

I was really no good. I have to say that I was really taught the very basics of architectural sketching at the university in Prague, where we had, I think it was four semesters of sketching, which really got me into the right direction with it. Yeah, I really liked the way it was taught. It fits me. And I was like a blank page, you know tabula rasa. So I just went with with that kind of approach, and I just developed it over time. And I think the important part is that you create a habit of sketching and use it for your designs. So that’s where it becomes really handy for architects I think most like 80% of sketches for our for architectural practice is is the rough and dirty process sketches, which are not meant to be presentational, that’s that’s the heavy lifting that the sketches do for you. You solve the problems, you develop the ideas, you communicate it with your peers or colleagues, and you just progress in and move forward with the design process. So there that’s where it becomes really handy because it’s super fast and natural way how to get things down. I think I just developed this habit of using sketching, even in my design process just over time as you practice you become better and better and you find some shortcuts and some great tips and advice that really moved you forward. And then you feel almost obliged to to share it with others because it helps you so much. I was no good at the beginning. I got some really good basics and foundations because of the university. And, and I just kept developing it. That’s, that’s, that’s that’s the process.

Kyle 

And you mentioned that you practice I’ve heard you say in another interview or maybe on your Instagram that you practice every day regularly.

What are some of the things you do to practice architectural hand sketching on a daily basis?

David 

Yeah, I recommend I recommend just getting into the habit of sketching it might be five minutes a day, it’s no like big burden on you. It’s like very quick practice. And, you know, it’s still connected to muscle memory and stuff. So you just don’t forget and you get more comfortable using it. And you can just practice drawing straight lines with your whole arm focusing on the endpoint, so you get it right. Because there are so handy in so many situations. For us architects straight lines. It’s like ellipses are super handy for industrial designers. They use it all the time. And we are pretty much good enough with with straight lines, straight lines, circles, all this stuff. And you can just practice your fool a4 page or whatever page you use, and fill it out with those no straight lines in different directions. So you’ll get more comfortable. And you don’t need to rotate your paper all the time. Because it might be a situation that you get to draw on a whiteboard or, or a blackboard like it’s behind me. And there’s a situation you can’t really rotate your canvas. So it becomes very handy to be able to draw in different directions and still be comfortable with that. These very basics of 2d objects is what actually creates the perspective eventually. So that’s what where I would start and practice just one or two sheets of paper to get warmed up as you get warmed up. before exercising as you as singers get warmed up before a performance, you can get warmed up every day. So you can you can sketch better.

Kyle 

What do you think are some of the biggest mistakes you see students making when sketching?

David 

Mm hmm. As I see, perspective is still a kind of scary topic struggle. Definitely. That’s that’s one thing. It’s a very generic topic, but perspective. And then I would say, a lot of the stuff I think can be improved, and I still learn a lot is actually the second step is the composition. So how you really compose nice images, how you work with scale, that’s really another part like, draw a perspective where all of the elements are in the correct scale, and how do you do that? You know, so and it goes back to referencing to referring to human scale to a human figure. So that’s why it’s important to to get some Reference measurements, human figures very handy because we all relate our spaces to humans and that’s where you take your sketches from you start with a human figure and then you relate all the scale according to dad. So I would say yet perspective, composition in general and the placement on off the horizon line, for instance, you know, and and then the scale because, yeah, it’s it’s not really that much about hatching and shading and texturing. That’s kind of a little bit similar. If you get the composition right, then you’re just halfway there. And it goes with any any image like it goes with photography, it goes with visualization, if you get the composition at the beginning, you get it right then it’s already a good image and you can tell

Kyle 

Great point. So I want to move on. I want to talk the source stuff Talking about your professional life as an architect. So after you graduated, you moved to Copenhagen to find work. And you’re unemployed there for a little bit of time. But I heard you mentioned in another interview that you traded looking for a job as your full time job. And I love this idea.

Can you tell us about the process you took to find a job in architecture?

David 

Oh, it was. It was tough. Yeah, and I’m glad you mentioned it, because I mean, it felt like looking for a job is actually a full time job on its own, if you do it properly. Definitely. And you know, we were we were in Denmark and Denmark is very specific in the ways how they treat unemployed people and how they take care of them and how they support them. So every month and pretty much every couple of weeks, I had a meeting with a one on one kind of coach who just wanted to know how I was doing with my job search. And there were some extra workshops on how to write your CV And write your cover letter. But in our case in architecture profession, we are more dependent on portfolio actually. So I spent, I think like one month preparing my graduate portfolio and printing it out. I know that during the time I reached out and applied to over 100 companies

Kyle 

Wow,

David 

in Copenhagen, and I was refused more than 100 times. You know, so it can be rough, but let’s give you let me give you a perspective. I was fresh graduates, very little working experience. I was not really fluent in the local language. I had very few or no contacts as we were in the New City. So all these kind of constraints. The whole situation was, was not the easiest for an expat to get a job as a fresh graduate in Different the foreign country and it took me almost a year to get a full time job. I had some internship, in the meantime, paid internship, luckily, in the meantime, but I think it was almost a year until I got a full time job I’ve printed my portfolio was in three copies. At some point, I was also just going to the companies unsolicited knocking on the doors, presenting myself and handing out the portfolio in case they were looking for someone to be more memorizable to send out and all that stuff. It was super uncomfortable. It was totally out of my comfort zone. And to be honest, most of these situations, were just awkward. You know, and sometimes I was also trying to speak Danish and my Danish was not that good beginnings so even more awkward. It was so funny. That now it’s funny. To look back, but in many ways, it was very challenging time and also very frustrating when you just hear no, no, no, no, we’re not looking for someone. No, you know, we don’t have enough projects right now. No. So it’s also a lot about timing. And it’s also a lot about networking and having recommendations. So I got a recommendation from the internship that I had during the time which would help it was written in Danish it was you know, for another Danish company. So that definitely helped. There was a sequence of things that I would do when I applied I sent my is different when it’s an unsolicited application versus really on the posted position. So there are different approaches but let’s say I would send them my my application, my CV my portfolio in in an email with very like tailored email, tailored cover letter and even CV for that specific company, I would call them to make sure that they received my application. So it’s not in some black hole. And I would let them know that I will get back to them in a week or two to follow up on that application. And it’s really important. So you are proactive one, not just saying, hey, looking forward to hearing from you.

No one ever get gets back to you. Like, you need to say at the end of the email, I will reach out back to you follow up on this in a week, next week, next Wednesday and actually do it. So that’s why I’m saying like, looking for a job in a proper way is a full time job on its own. As you follow up, follow through all these things and companies and you craft your new emails and CVS and cover letters. So that that’s why it’s pretty much a lot of time consuming. And because you get all the refusals you, you might get frustrated, but you just need to push through and be persistent. And at the same time you I would recommend building your network, be very active on LinkedIn, be in touch with your peers from university, see if they haven’t heard about some open position where they can recommend you and stuff. Like that, and having really strong portfolio and I was editing the sketches and the end to them. So it was just so much things going into this job search eventually, it really paid off. And I found one job where I wasn’t really that happy. And I quit very early because I already got another where it was basically a dream job where I could do all the sketching all the visualization, I work with BIM, you know, I niche down I targeted I specified very much what kind of company I want to work at, what size the company is, what’s their focus, what type type of buildings do they do, what scale do they work in, what software they work in? A really specified these things very much. So I got my top five companies that I wanted to work ends and eventually I’ve ended up working at two of them and having Interview in the third. Wow. So in a way, it was very painful. But eventually, it was actually quite successful

Kyle 

man, it was so many so many great points. I think that’s so smart. The fact that you’ve set out a set of criteria for yourself and the jobs you want, or the places you’d like to work at. And then to use that criteria as a way of niching down and deciding where you want to work, I think that’s awesome. So I want to talk about managing a side hustle, because it’s not an easy thing to do when you’ve got full time work or full time study.

How did you find the time to work on sketch like an architect when you were working full time as an architect?

David 

Good question.

I was lucky that I started the whole project when I was still unemployed, as I said at the beginning, and then once I got the job, I just continue with the time that I got spare for, for this case, like an architect project and it was already just Taking off a little bit. So I just continued to work on it during the evenings and early mornings, pretty much every day trying to be consistent posting five times per week on Instagram. And sometimes using what I’ve been working on in my job, just to show Hey, I’m working on a new project and doing these kind of sketches and you know, whatever. And sometimes it was just an extra work within the sketch like an architect project, I think it was very fun to do. It is still a personal projects that that I really love and did time in in the time of unemployment. It was great that it was a way how to take my mind off the job search, which was very frustrating at many times, so I could concentrate on something that I will I like I enjoy it. Right. And when I was employed and work full time, I still kind of enjoy the different projects to work on as it is When you have a side hustle just as you do, you have all the control, you have all the responsibility, you are in charge of that no one else. But when you’re working full time as an architect, especially on the starting positions as Junior architect, you don’t have that many responsibilities because you’re not experienced enough. It just makes sense that you need to build yourself up. And in that way, it’s really nice balance between Okay, working full time, getting that experience be in the real practice, but not having enough responsibilities yet. And balancing it out with your side hustle where you have all the responsibilities and you are in charge no one else so you’re responsible for all the wins and all the losses definitely. So in that way, I found it to be really nicely balanced. Of course, you don’t have that much spare time out of that. It’s just a nice balance. And the really nice thing is that you can focus on your side hustle, as there is no financial pressure on it, because you have your full time job that covers your living. So side hustles are just just great. And if you have something if you found something that you’re really passionate about, and you see meaning in that, then you’ll find time to do that.

Kyle 

Yeah, if you enjoy what you do, and it’s not work. David, I got a couple more question for you. Before we finish up. I know we might be running a bit over time, but I’m super pumped by this. So this one’s for all the students that have asked this.

If you could go back in time to when you were studying to be an architect. Is there anything you wish you could have changed or wish you’d known or done sooner?

David 

Hmm.

Okay, that’s a kind of deeper. Listen, let me let me

have a think about it. Let me think about it.

Just to give you a little bit of perspective. Again, I’ve spent So much time studying that I didn’t have really any spare time during my studies, especially in Prague. It was a real hustle, real drill. So, in a way, I can’t imagine, like spending more time on my studies, then I did. Well, you know, so it’s almost no way I could have put more effort into debt, even though it was really hard back then I’m benefiting from those years now. When when I have my workflows when I have my discipline when I, you know, get my heart skills down, and I can develop some kind of process for myself, but if I should change something, well, it sounds strange, but maybe I actually wouldn’t change a thing for which which brings me to that I must be very happy with how things turned out. But there there is one thing That’s actually my my bachelor thesis that I wasn’t so happy about in the end. And that’s, I would just do the whole project differently approached to whole project differently than I do. Yeah. Okay. Okay, I get a little bit more generic. But this bachelor thesis of mine reminded me that when I was developing a concept for any studio project, it’s cool. I would also think so hard and spend so much time to come up with one concept that was the strongest, that just was super powerful. It doesn’t it didn’t need to be metaphoric, but it was just super strong and made sense. And I’d spent all my time on that one concept and looking back at it, I think it is not the ideal approach I find today Today I find much better approach to develop. Let’s say three to five quick concepts. Take a little bit further to see if they’re working, if they can survive, if like, you can really work with those concepts, even in later stages, and test them out, create some scale models, create some sketches, some quick analysis of those and evaluate, evaluate those three to five concepts and say, Okay, this works in here, this doesn’t really work and the other one, maybe I could combine these two. And I think it’s just a bit more healthy approach than just putting all your eggs in one basket and counting on that one concept that you wants to be the strongest, but you’re not really focusing on any different directions, if it makes sense. So right now, I would really approach this whole thing differently. But at the same time, I guess that’s something that I’ve just learned over the years, that it’s smarter and healthier to do it differently. Not just one concept, but developing three at the same time from the beginning. And then really choosing evaluating based on evolution making some informed decisions. That’s something I would I would do differently. But I had no idea back then. So that’s something that comes with my experience from studies in Denmark, where we work very differently in groups. And it’s also something from real practice experience, where you just develop projects in a different way, then it’s cool. Yeah, but apart Apart from that, I, I think I don’t that many things. I don’t have that many things to change.

Kyle 

That’s a good thing. But I completely agree with you there. I think the idea of experimenting and just evolving ideas because the concept was built over time through experimentation. That’s the only way you can knock out a proper concept or idea. So I’m really glad you shared that with us.

David 

Yeah. experimentation and iteration. That’s, that’s like the magic.

Kyle 

Definitely. So I want to move on to like a fire round to some quick questions.

Who’s your favourite architect?

David 

It should be like a quick answer . . .

Kyle 

It never is for anyone. So don’t worry.

David 

now, I don’t have one. I just don’t have one. I really like many, many things like today under the just it’s a first name that comes to my mind because I related Japanese architecture. Gosh, I just don’t want to forget all about all the great great architects but definitely I wouldn’t say probably a name of a starchitect but I would go more like with Peter to door and you know, timber, timber structures and use of timber and architects that’s that’s my that’s my favorite area, I guess.

Yeah. Let’s, I probably will not give you any any more names than that. It’s super hard question.

Kyle 

It is. It is Basically even though it’s just a quick Yeah, quick question.

Do you have a favourite architecture book that is not your own?

David 

Let me let me have a flick through them all.

Kyle  

Jesus. How many of you out there?

David 

There are plenty of books. Yeah, plenty of books and excellent is this shelf. This bookshelf is just not big enough for all the books, but I want my favorite architecture book is a non architecture book. Okay. Okay. And actually, it’s three books. I always tend to recommend them but I just find them so amazing. And I recommend them to all your listeners if they haven’t read them yet. And it’s the three books from Austin kleon show we are work still like an artist and keep going. Okay. These are just me And that’s actually the books that got me started with what I do right now. You know, show your work is amazing book for all the creatives, which will inspire you and encourage you and show you the way and it’s just amazing. So, when someone asks me for for book recommendation, I very often recommend non architecture books like this one.

Kyle 

Ah, well, that’s great, because I hadn’t even heard of those books, but I’m going to have to pick them up now.

David 

Oh my god. Yes, please do Austin kleon. All three books. There are nice kind of small square format. A lot of illustrations. They’re just amazing. You’re, I’m sure you’re gonna love them. So I recommend them highly.

Kyle 

Do you have any hobbies outside of sketch like an architect or architecture in general? Do you have any other hobbies?

David 

Sure. I love a lot of sports and I’ve been playing Ultimate Frisbee for Not a long time for maybe three or four years, but on a hard call, it’s on a certain level, at some point or even on an international level also. Yeah, you know, it’s still very fresh and a new sport. So it’s not that hard to, you know, be pro your country if you’re not living in the US. But yeah, I’ve been a part of a junior representation once and there were some more international experience also. So Ultimate Frisbee was definitely one of them until I really dislocated my shoulder so I didn’t do it on on dead level and anymore. But yeah, definitely a lot of a lot of sports and let me see what else and guitar you can maybe see in the big world. I’ve ukulele electric guitar and

electric acoustic guitar. So I’m a big fan.

Kyle 

Can I ask, Do you play in . . . I’ve seen a couple of YouTube videos do you play in them? Is that your Music or is that from someone else?

David 

No, no, that’s

Kyle 

I was thinking this guy is so talented if it was

David 

I was thinking about recording my own music for my my videos, but I didn’t know eventually because they are videos are so time consuming on its own. So if I should compose any audio and record audio for that there will be just I would never finish the video. But no, I just I just enjoy. I started with acoustic guitar like a long time maybe it’s 1516 years ago when I was 13. So and slowly I’m transitioning to, to electric guitar. Yeah, I’m just I’m just having fun with with those. It’s, it’s something I can really ease my mind with.

Kyle 

Awesome. So I’ll skip to the last question because we are over here.

But finally you have or you have an online course and book for sketching and you’ve got this mini course out as well.

If someone wants to know more about that mini course, what would you say about that?

David 

Yes, it’s quite fresh. I just put out a free mini course with my top 10 tips on architectural sketching. It’s basically five short videos delivered over five days where each time I talk about my two of my top 10 tips, but it’s basically my best practices

and advice that I was given on the way

I always talked about it. In a short video demonstrated there was a sketching worksheet, free to download and some extra resources in form of blog posts and other tutorial videos or freebies, that go along with it. So if you want to just taste it, it’s free. And I hope I’ll give you the link so you can

Kyle 

you can read the description. So

David 

provide provide your listeners with that. And yeah, so my top 10 tips on architecture sketching free mini course. Try it out. See if it You and help and let me know which tip you found most useful.

Kyle 

Yeah. Awesome. All right, David, thank you so much for being a great guest on the podcast. I’ve really enjoyed this.

David 

Thanks so much for having me. It was fun.